OB on 15 & 16?

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OB on 15 & 16?

Post by stripedcomic » Wed Jul 24, 2013 12:23 pm

What're the OB rules for 15 and 16?

Are they different in like, the Play it Again Open, when compared to dubs?

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Re: OB on 15 & 16?

Post by nyrblue2 » Wed Jul 24, 2013 12:53 pm

I should just let MichJeff or Kenji respond, since I'm not 100% sure, but I'm bored.

I don't think anything is OB during dubs, is it? Except the pond, of course.

During tournies, hole 15 is played such that the pond is "extended" out to the second pavement path (the one right next to 15's fairway). Anything on or left of that as you're playing hole 15 is OB.

Hole 16 is played such that the path to the right of the blue tee is an extension of the pond and the path just in front of the white tee is a river. The tees are on an island in between the pond (including the pavement) and river.


Hopefully, I'm not wrong on these...

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Re: OB on 15 & 16?

Post by MichiganJeff » Wed Jul 24, 2013 1:04 pm

You're close, Mike........ Both roads are considered "asphalt rivers" for Hole 16. Also on OR over the road behind the basket on 16 is OB.
Please send spotters out for hole 15 so you can determine where a disc crossed over the OB line.

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Re: OB on 15 & 16?

Post by nyrblue2 » Wed Jul 24, 2013 1:13 pm

I suppose being in between the pond and the right-most path on 16 is punishment enough. Something must have gone terribly wrong to end up there. :think:

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Re: OB on 15 & 16?

Post by jZip » Wed Jul 24, 2013 1:15 pm

excellent diagrams Jeff. I've always felt these rules should be in effect all the time, not just for tournies. anyone else agree?

i think the path cutting across 16 is an awesome OB. if you are concerned you may not get across you can lay up to right around the white tee. that's good hole design.
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Re: OB on 15 & 16?

Post by MichiganJeff » Wed Jul 24, 2013 1:22 pm

jZip wrote:excellent diagrams Jeff. I've always felt these rules should be in effect all the time, not just for tournies. anyone else agree?

i think the path cutting across 16 is an awesome OB. if you are concerned you may not get across you can lay up to right around the white tee. that's good hole design.
The main reason behind these rules if because of the number of players on course during a tournament. Casual play rarely has plaers on both holes.

I do like the river OB on 16........ i've seen a few low shots hit the hillside and roll back into the road.
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Re: OB on 15 & 16?

Post by nyrblue2 » Wed Jul 24, 2013 1:27 pm

Copied from archived thread viewtopic.php?p=31784#p31784

Out of Bounds(OB) and mandatory specifics

Holes 1 & 2 – Road on left is OB. Curb is OB line.
Hole 3 – Road beyond pin is OB.
Hole 5 – Creek is OB, marked by string/paint line.
Hole 6 – On paved roads are OB, consider them asphalt
creeks. White tee is on an “island”.
Hole 7 – Inside fenced tennis court is OB.
Hole 8 – All paved roads are OB, as is trailer roof, deck and
under deck.
Hole 10 – Creek is OB, marked by string/paint line.
Hole 11 – Road & parking behind basket is OB.
Walking path in fairway is NOT OB.
Hole 12 – Pass left of mando from blue tee.
Hole 15 – On or over paved road/walkways is OB.
Pass left of mando from blue tee.
Hole 16 – All paved roads are OB. Curb is OB line
behind pin. BOTH tees are on an “island”.
Pass left of mando from blue tee.
Hole 17 – All paved sidewalks/roads are OB, consider them
asphalt creeks.
Pass left of mando from blue/white tee.
Hole 18 – Road is OB, curb is OB line.
In creek surrounded by water is OB.

*Up to 1 meter relief from all OB. You cannot throw from OB.
*All missed mandos must be re-thrown from previous lie OR drop I meter DIRECTLY behind the mando tree with 1 stroke penalty.
*PLEASE pay attention to all tee shots that go OB so that a spot can be determined by all in the group.
*Send spotter up fairway for holes 4, 12, & 15.

Littering is grounds for disqualification.


Looks like everything still applies except the trailer on 8.

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Re: OB on 15 & 16?

Post by MichiganJeff » Wed Jul 24, 2013 1:33 pm

nyrblue2 wrote: Looks like everything still applies except the trailer on 8.

Yes.

Thanks for digging this out, will make my life easier when I have to print copies for the tourney.
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Re: OB on 15 & 16?

Post by jZip » Wed Jul 24, 2013 1:34 pm

MichiganJeff wrote:
jZip wrote:excellent diagrams Jeff. I've always felt these rules should be in effect all the time, not just for tournies. anyone else agree?

i think the path cutting across 16 is an awesome OB. if you are concerned you may not get across you can lay up to right around the white tee. that's good hole design.
The main reason behind these rules if because of the number of players on course during a tournament. Casual play rarely has plaers on both holes.



Yeah, but why shouldn't they be in play regardless of the number of players? They are good OBs. Add challenge to the holes and call for smart play.

MichiganJeff wrote:I do like the river OB on 16........ i've seen a few low shots hit the hillside and roll back into the road.


or hit the tree to the right. really, this OB is IMHO a virtual no brainer.

i'd like to recommend that starting in 2014 we play the OBs on both 15 and 16 in all organized play, which would include league and tag matches.
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Re: OB on 15 & 16?

Post by MichiganJeff » Wed Jul 24, 2013 1:42 pm

Too much of a PITA to run a spotter down there for a tag round.
More people means more eyes to see where/if a disc crosses the OB line.

Talk to Kenji about changing Dubs rules.
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Re: OB on 15 & 16?

Post by jZip » Wed Jul 24, 2013 2:05 pm

MichiganJeff wrote:Too much of a PITA to run a spotter down there for a tag round.
More people means more eyes to see where/if a disc crosses the OB line.


no spotter. drop zone. again, just my .02
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Re: OB on 15 & 16?

Post by timdef » Wed Jul 24, 2013 2:55 pm

you cant go OB "in-flight" but land IB and play on without penalty?

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Re: OB on 15 & 16?

Post by MichiganJeff » Wed Jul 24, 2013 3:55 pm

timdef wrote:you cant go OB "in-flight" but land IB and play on without penalty?

Yes you can.
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Re: OB on 15 & 16?

Post by kenjiac » Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:23 pm

Zip I was real close to making tournament OB for holes 15 and 16 in effect for dubs. I like the idea that OB becomes permanent. Convince the masses.
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Re: OB on 15 & 16?

Post by Greg » Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:49 pm

As much as I like the margin of error with the dubs OB lines.
I think next year that all the asphalt should be OB. Great map JW on the OB areas!
Folks are getting more comfortable with the layout and understanding OB areas.
Sure makes your drive on 16 a lot more dangerous.

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Re: OB on 15 & 16?

Post by timdef » Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:03 pm

MichiganJeff wrote:
timdef wrote:you cant go OB "in-flight" but land IB and play on without penalty?

Yes you can.


i realize now the spotter would be to know if OB before walking all the way own the hill, etc... I was trying to think of why you'd need the spotter.

drop-zone then eliminates the need to "re-tee"... right?

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Re: OB on 15 & 16?

Post by nyrblue2 » Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:07 pm

Why use a spotter? If it goes OB, just agree as a group where it crossed the OB line - same as any other hole with OB. Nobody sends spotters behind the hill on 8 or out near the creek on 10 just because there is OB. If it happens to have landed OB when you arrive at the disc, just discuss and agree with where it crossed and throw from there.

Drop zone on 15 would be kinda weird, considering one person could "go OB" right near blue tee #16, while one person could "go OB" near the steep hill in front of white tee #16. Where would the drop zone be? If near the hill, the person who didn't go OB until right near blue tee #16 is gonna be pissed.

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Re: OB on 15 & 16?

Post by Ven » Wed Jul 24, 2013 6:25 pm

One problem with OB is no one really knows what the rule is. Please post a clear comprehensive unambiguous explanation. Thanks.
We need the same for Mando (The description with the list of all the OBs is ambiguous about when a penalty stroke is charged.)

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Re: OB on 15 & 16?

Post by MichiganJeff » Wed Jul 24, 2013 8:24 pm

Ven wrote:One problem with OB is no one really knows what the rule is. Please post a clear comprehensive unambiguous explanation. Thanks.
We need the same for Mando (The description with the list of all the OBs is ambiguous about when a penalty stroke is charged.)

An OB sheet goes out with every card at our tournaments.
The one that nyrblue2(Mike Nadeau) posted is near perfect, aside from the trailers on 8.
The phrase "surrounded by water" is always a problem because water levels change, sometime a lot over the course of a day.

Bottom line............It's the responsibility of the players to know the rules and ask questions whenever they're unsure.
Course-specific OB will be spelled out as best as possible on a handout. Changes to the water lines are a variable out of the control of the TD and common sense should kick in after that.
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Re: OB on 15 & 16?

Post by Ven » Wed Jul 24, 2013 9:11 pm

Jeff, you did not catch my drift. I was referring to the larger context of having OB for all levels of play. Specifically that many players do not take the responsibility to learn all the rules. Many do not know what to do about OB and Mandos. I will will take your advice and become self informed.

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Re: OB on 15 & 16?

Post by timdef » Wed Jul 24, 2013 9:18 pm

Ven wrote:... I was referring to the larger context of having OB for all levels of play... Many do not know what to do about OB and Mandos. I will do the research to answer my own questions.


i think you land on a link to pdga rules... would you be so kind to share with the group the response you expected/wanted to your original observation/request? thanks.

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