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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 7:29 pm 
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WTF ??!!!
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Location: Ballston Lake, NY
Just because a course is included here on the forum, doesn't necessarily mean it's directly associated to the Club. The safety issues at Willow and Thacher are very similar, in my opinion. But those courses are listed here.

Like Tim said, go play it this spring to get a true opinion of it.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 12:31 am 
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Kevin Rounds wrote:
I think we need to as a club need to inform the folks in the state park that we tried to assist but our advice and plea for safety was heard but not implemented to our disappointment.
can you get that done tim?


the park never heard of the incident until i brought it to their attention (city police/personnel came, not park police/personnel, and no charges were filed as the parties knew each other). it was a spring of 2016 event (if i recall correctly).

I have expressed concern and disappointment w.r.t the safety concern in abundance, in person and in writing, multiple times. I'm not sure you are asking me to do anything additional than what's already been done...?

All due respect, and I do respect your opinion and perspective, you're preaching to the choir and jumping in to this fray with some delay. The approach has been to throw in as many safety/caution signs as possible and try to "lead by example" when playing. Play safe, explain to newer/greener players the importance of safety and the opportunity for devastation to the sport/course if an event were to occur. I know this can lead to a slippery slope of "don't play there at all", but for me, and the >40,000 people living/working within 10 minutes drive of this course, it's not going to get not-played.

Again, if there's an idea on how to communicate more effectively the safety concern or an approach to get the course safer, i'm interested. Maybe i'm a sucker w/ hope n all that, but i want to overwhelm the park with this "concept course" utilization and convince them to build a bigger/better course in one of the truly under-utilized parcels in the park. It can be done. this can be done in parallel to an approach to pursue a safer course


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 7:00 am 
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it is never ok to justify unsafe design by saying it is better than nothing....I am the only guy who is gonna say FIX THE PROBLEM AREA OF THE COURSE BY SPRING ......then we all wont be typing about incidents that did not need to happen....it is simple.....redesign the stupid holes....or we will be revisiting this subject there in the future....is that what we want in a disc golf course?


is any dangerous hole worth somebody's eye ?????


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 7:13 am 
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WTF ??!!!
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Kevin Rounds wrote:
it is never ok to justify unsafe design by saying it is better than nothing...
Again, preaching to the choir.

Kevin Rounds wrote:
I am the only guy who is gonna say FIX THE PROBLEM AREA OF THE COURSE BY SPRING
Read back a few posts. Tim and other have badgered the State about safety. Typing in caps or yelling loud will not help.

Kevin Rounds wrote:
it is simple.....redesign the stupid holes....or we will be revisiting this subject there in the future....is that what we want in a disc golf course?
Sounds like you wanna step in and take the lead here Kevin? Pretty sure that Tim will be happy to forward the contact info.

The KEY here is that DisCap didn't design or install the course. Brian Giggey and Explore Disc Golf did. I personally don't think the Club should stick it's nose in any further than it already has. Our concerns about safety are well documented.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:03 am 
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Saratoga Park decided where the course was going to be placed. When I went to the Master Plan meeting 10 years ago, we asked and received the OK for a 9 hole course. When the park said "here is the land we'll let you use", DisCap demurred from participating due to safety issues. Time passed, folks stepped up to do the BEST job possible, working within very poor guidelines. There now exists a course that is played frequently. DisCap's position remains unchanged, we are VERY concerned about safety and have done what we can, given the situation.
NY State Parks are a BIG supporter of disc golf, more courses are coming!


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:24 am 
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let's have a monthly here in the spring? i'll play lefty and play terribly. We can talk about our "suck list", or "safety list", and bring that to the attention of the park what we believe to be unacceptable.

Perhaps we can make it a volunteer day to keep some of the brush cleared that I (and others) have cleared in the past that afford some visibility for the sake of safety. might be excellent timing as i believe the park plans something (wouldn't tell me) that will have in impact on the area. They could be bring in a plastic shop...?

my personal concerns:
picnic tables in wrong places (2, 3, 9)
possible errant throws on 1, 2, 3 could go in road.
on 5 an out-of-this-world errant throw could go toward pavilion
path that comes up behind basket 6
an over throw on 8 approaches the rarely utilized pavilion
path that comes out half way through fairway 9 and behind 9's basket

removing "blindspots" (clearing brush), educating players, and adding caution signs has been the approach up to now.

Kevin, please walk the talk. You have my support. I appreciate your willingness to guide me on pushing to get it done if you won't do it yourself. this is like one-person trying to push and steer their broken down humvee up a hill. The state park doesn't allow outsiders in to do much (except to voluntarily do work that they've approved)


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 6:29 pm 
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tim, will send the contact info for the management at the spa park if you have it....ty, and ty for the effort you and others have put forth to help remedy this situation


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:14 pm 
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Kevin Rounds wrote:
tim, will send the contact info for the management at the spa park if you have it....ty, and ty for the effort you and others have put forth to help remedy this situation


PM sent

i hope your approach includes convincing them to put disc in the truly underutilized areas south of east-west road, the land west of the current layout and/or the wooded area further north (near 7's current location, and down the hill, passed 6, for example)



9/13/2014:
..it's really not a very good layout for (1) safety or (2) challenge. Probably will be trying to do something similar to what Brian Giggey did with the Mobile Disc Golf experience. Safety is clearly the priority as it is the one item that will undermine any course's success.

11/12/2014
Got some excellent feedback [at the pirate monthly]. It's hard to imagine the Peerless area in Summer on a dreary (seasonably chilly) Autumn day. We absolutely can NOT conflict with people using picnic tables or the grills at the park. I say that knowing full well who takes precedence

7/15/2015:
I think it's hole 4. Teh hole you land at after you cross over the New bridge. The tee that is in the corner. This tee is VERY unsafe until the brush on the right side is clear so that the paved path (currently "behind the bend") is in clear view from the tee. That might be a great job most efficiently executed with some machinery (brush hog?) that could be done at any time (sooner the better). Alternatively, it would be a drain on the volunteers as it is so thick but perhaps that is just the fact of the matter.

7/17/2015
Park List
- remove various picnic tables and grills... these can NOT co-exist with disc golf fairways SAFETY (the two tables and grill by 1Left Tee are a problem... maybe leave only 1 picnic table, no grill there...?
- signage EVERYWHERE a path crosses/nears the disc golf fairways SAFETY
- Install Tee signs... right now the tees are predominantly established with paint that will soon disappear. The SAFETY signs are arguably more important!

7/19/2015
I took a "Show-n-tell" walk through the park today with a buddy (and my 2 kids in tow). It pains me to point this out... just looking at the pictures attached. Holes 2, 3, 4 would have been unplayable without asking people to move which I think is not something disc golfers are likely to do. I know I have consistently pointed out that disc golfers will ALWAYS respect other park users. I was always thinking of pedestrians, runners, bikers, dog-walkers, etc. That said, people who have "set up shop" on a fairway at a picnic table (or a tent as was the case on hole 4)... this is another story. Imagine someone setting up a picnic even on one of the Executive traditional golf fairways... yikes.

I don't know how best to handle it. This "concept" will fail if every weekend, casual/recreational players (not even from Saratoga County) come out (after paying the $8 entry fee to the park) to find they can't play half the holes of a 9-hole course. Maybe you foresaw this with great clarity and have a plan in place. Word will spread rapidly of this condition if it remains as it is today

8/22/2015
We (DisCap et al) had a "Monthly" event at the Park course on August 22 at ~9AM. 25 players, 3 divisions, 1 round. We snagged the un-rented old pavilion by basket 8 and bbq'd after the morning round. ~dozen guys played "doubles" after lunch (I was not one of them).

It went very well. Many of the tables/grills were at least moved out of the typical locations. Only one table got moved ~70' from side of parking lot BACK to "in the way" on hole 3 fairway (where there was still a grill) - that didn't happen until ~noon.

"Landscaping"
Again, I refer to tees as 1/2/3/etc Left and Right... it works. I still vote to have holes 1-9, alternative tees :) NOT 1-18
1RIGHT proximity to Practice basket... We could move the tee forward, or more painstakingly, move the practice basket (and it's associated concrete).
6LEFT... actually need to clear a line of vision (SAFETY) to pedestrian path without creating a new throwing lane off to the left - see attached .jpg. We could "brush hog" the hill short of the basket --> Need Park help... bottom of "the list", really, it's a "nice-to-do"
8RIGHT we need to make the pedestrian path a little more visible... nothing crazy, just need to make it a little safer, visually
9_____ need to clear a little bit of the brush on the right so we can see pedestrians from the tees

Park List (not sequential order)
- remove various picnic tables and grills
- signage EVERYWHERE a path crosses/nears the disc golf fairways SAFETY signage probably cant be overdone...
- don't lose the tee locations!
- we re-painted the front-corners 8/22.
- note: keep tees "at grade" in the back of the tee so players can "run up"... 5'x12' tees is ideal! :)
- Install Kiosk/Tee-Signage

I realize at one point I suggested putting the old (soon-to-be-discarded) picnic tables at the Disc Golf tees... I have to retract that blanket statement. They could go to only each Tee that doesn't present itself as a hazard to another tee/fairway. The general public will sit at any available table or relocate them as they see fit.

11/8/2015
feedback from a guy (I don't know him) - please read:
http://www.dgcoursereview.com/reviews.php?id=7921&mode=rev#64875

...this is not good for people considering to make the course a "destination" stop. dgcoursereview is relied upon substantially by players who are traveling and playing.

Be aware of this sentiment coming from experienced players

11/30/2015
If the plan is to keep that stone and to not upgrade to concrete, a front "line" needs to get incorporated. Usually where the concrete ends (or pavers end) is sufficient. With the crushed stone, it's kind of a sloppy mess. a sunken 4"x4" at the front of the Tee would be a vast improvement to today's tees. Right now it's kind of like a baseball diamond without a home plate, bases or pitching rubber.

keeping the above analogy going: Leaving those picnic tables/grills where they are is like having fan stands behind home plate without a backstop/netting.

5/9/2016
rumors of a safety event... is it true?

rumor includes what we commonly refer to as "chuckers" - folks who run and throw and their main objective is to run a lot and chase after the disc... only curious on this point

5/26/2016
I think there is a place or two where we want to open the flight path just a bit (hole 3LEFT, for example). then holes 6 and 9... It makes the game much more enjoyable when not being worried about injuring a walker/runner/biker (visibility concerns).

6/14/2016
day or so after we did a volunteer day... needless to say the signs did not go where i detailed
Does Chris want to do another walk through? Or can you guys walk through based on my map and painted designation? There is nothing sprayed after the tees on 8 (ran out of second can of paint)

The visibility scale has gone way up after our Monday effort - not glorious work - but good work done

8/10/2016
after, many, many annoying requests by me trying to get the signs put up and and picnic tables/grills relocated
Signs look great... I haven't played a round yet (sprained my shoulder playing soccer the week before your email below) but yeah it's nice to see them in there. The sign pointing to 1A and 1B is oddly placed... it's not really facing where anyone would be walking

People on social media were excited to see that the signs are posted; immediate question, "Did they move the tables and grills?"

A lot of people have had to skip holes (better than someone getting hurt) to avoid picnickers and it kind of takes away from the course experience... if you are interested in that element, the tables and grills should go. from hole 1, 2, 3, and arguably 9

/END

..........all other pleas were in person or in redundant emails. they will not respond to emails, in general. things in writing spook them.

this thread has been seriously hijcked 8-)


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:35 pm 
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Most all offending grills had been moved when I was there last.
I can split the hijacked portion from this thread if you want.

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